Editor's Notes

crae, it might look ok to you, but it's puke green to me as well.

Jobeleca {10.13.2002|13.40}

Since when did reporting have anything to do with facts?
I say publish it...
{:p

Elwin {10.13.2002|18.10}

I'd tend to agree. And I say that worried that the article is possibly a largely a partisan leftist critique of the GUI Olympics. Maybe it's very positive about it. I don't know. I do know that the people who participated in it seemed quite pleased based on the # of emails I've gotten wondering when the next one was going to be.

It would have been better if Tek had let Craeonics report on the events as they happened. Then there wouldn't be the issue of having overzealous editorializing.

I personally find the whole thing discouraging. There wasn't a summer GUI Olympics because no one wanted to volunteer and deal with "the community" again for awhile since we were so disgusted with the petty political nonsense dished out from a handful of self appointed elitists. Between Kenray's creaming it because of the originally stated rules (which were taken verbatim from a previous contest that was available on dA and elsewhere) to having a couple of the websites start to make after the fact demands on judging, the political stuff was a real turn off.

Would it have been so difficult for someone to simply write an article about a nice multi-site contest in which skinners were finally getting some much deserved recognition where $10,000 in cash and prizes were handed out? A contest in which most of the actual participants -- the SKINNERS, the people this magazine was supposed to be created for, had a really good time. The only people I saw raising a stink about how the contest was run were non-skinners.

Having a contest in which virtually all the skin sites in "the community" cooperated with each other seamlessly should have been seen as a good thing (IMO). Was the GUI Olympics controversal? Not really. Not outside the tiny clique of non-skinners it wasn't. It's biggest critic was Shoggot for crying out loud. A guy who hasn't made a skin in years who presided over the least cooperative skin site (skinz.org doesn't link to any other sites, does anyone think a multi website contest for skinners would have been possible if it were run by Shoggot?).

But really, would it hvae been that challenging to just write up an article that discussed some of the skins that won the various events? You could still have editorial about the skins and themes without editorializing the validity of the name of the contest or whether you agree with some rule of the contest or the layout of the website or whatever.

It was a great contest that helped the community and demonstrated how far the skin sites had come over the past couple years that they could now work together in a friendly competition. And while it has gotten no coverage in any of the Tek issues, its biggest critic, Shoggot, got a nice long interview in a post-GUI Olympics issue.

Frogboy {10.13.2002|22.52}

Crae, that's my point. By publishing it, then at least Teknidermy would at least be showing the courage to be up front in its views of things rather than the subtle bias we otherwise see.

It's much like the difference we see in the real media. Conservatives get frustrated because they see the media at blatantly left-wing while the media tries to pretend to be "neutral" but because the media is so populated with people who have left of center opinions, those views still seep through.

The same is true here. When Teknidermy was first created, it was positioned as a skinner's journal for "the community". Kenray himself used those words. But in reality, it often seems (to me anyway) a scarcely hidden tool to advocate Kenray's views and those who feel similarly. And in my opinion, those views have increasingly become out of touch with the mainstream of skinning.

The GUI Olympics is just a good example. Sure, you could dig up a dozen or two people who didn't like the GUI Olympics. But at the ame time, I bet if Teknidermy had run the GUI Olympics in exactly the same way, those same people would have loved it. In short, they had a pre-bias on it. Despite the fact that the GUI Olympics was a volunteer effort (i.e. T-man and I weren't paid to work on it, we worked on it in our spare time).

I bet the population of people who Kenray hangs out with virtually is overwhelming negative on its feelings on the GUI Olympics. But the GUI Olympics was very well received by most people. So it is very telling that the article on the GUI Olympics Kenray had made ended up being nasty about it. It shows the constituency of people that Kenray hangs around and the people he believes the magazine targets.

That's why I'd be happy if Tek would publish its nasty article on the GUI Olympics. It would bring out into the open its biases that seep through anyway in more subtle ways. At least then things would be in the open. Tek could stand or fall based on its convictions. If under the surface the Tek staff is largely 'anti-Stardock" or more realistically "anti-company" it should be up front about that and quit trying to benefit from them (for instance, Tek could INSIST on making sure that its website is not located on the Stardock owned Deskmod server).

I guess you could say that my general opinion is that Teknidermy is out of touch with where skinning is today. And as a result it has slowly migrated to having a more and more focused agenda.

Frogboy {10.14.2002|11.10}

Brad - Now, I dont want to turn this into a fight, but saying that Tek is out of touch with skinning is a bit.....off? I mean, couldn't it be the case that you are out of touch with skinning because 99% of your efforts are related to Stardock products only? I'm not saying that insultingly, just stating a case. It's a big world out there :)

integer {10.14.2002|12.50}

"If under the surface the Tek staff is largely 'anti-Stardock" or more realistically "anti-company" it should be up front about that and quit trying to benefit from them (for instance, Tek could INSIST on making sure that its website is not located on the Stardock owned Deskmod server)."

Wow.
That almost sounds like a veiled threat.
NOT that it is, mind you, but if it WAS, it would be a darned GOOD one.
Not that it is, but, but, if it was, man, it would certainly be to the point.
And a threat - and a good one - but a veiled one.
Not that it IS one, but still...
Wow.

Elwin {10.14.2002|12.51}

just to clarify, I meant out of touch with non-Stardock skinning, not skinning in general. I know how these things are often mis-quoted......

integer {10.14.2002|12.54}

Integer: I know what you mean. Truly there can be different concepts of what is "mainstream". In my mind, mainstream comes down to a pure numbers game. I'd say articles on msstyles would be legitimate since there are a lot of people doing stuff on that. More articles on Media Player, more articles on Winamp 3. Millions of people use Windows Media Player. Winamp, WindowBlinds. Those are mainstream at that point.

Now before Doreen says "We did an article on X" let me clarify - one article in the history of a webzine is not a catch-all. Winamp 3, for instance, could be covered in a dozen or so articles that discuss the philosophies behind it, techniques on skinning (and there have beena rticles on the latter) where Winamp is going to go, how Winamp compares to other technologies, etc.

The same is true of Media player. Or how about articles about the growing movement of skinners making a living from skinning? Success stories. Pixtudio and the Skins factory make a solid living now creating skins for big companies like Microsoft, Nintendo, nVidia and others.

Or how about articles that talk about how the big companies are starting to embrace skinning. Saying "we did AN article on X last year" doesn't really seem to cover it. Things change over time. Interviews with authors are nice but not really hard news. Having "Brad Wardell" tell you how great WindowBlinds is isn't terribly useful to readers. Writing balanced articles, on the other hand, on the pros and cons of different programs would be very usefl for a skinner's journal.

I've written articles on this myself which I've tried to be objective:

[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]

I have a vested interest in writing these articles but I did do them on my own time and all of them were done in the past month or two. But even without posting these links on a Stardock site, they get more visits per month than Teknidermy gets (Based on the hit counters and Alexa rankings). These are technical articles that people are interested in.

One thing I will say though, I can't see how one can be in touch with skinning in general yet be out of touch with Stardock skinning. That's not hubris, that's just statistical reality.

Elwin: My statement regarding the server was not intended as any sort of threat. I just am a proponent of moral consistency. It's like those politicians who campaign on the "evils of big business" during the day and then attend fund raisers designed to get campaign contributions from those same evil big businesses. Or the famous book authors who rant against the logging industry while ignoring the fact that their books require considerable amounts of trees to be cut down.

Hopefully through this discussion I can convnce people of one thing - I do care about Tek. This thread has only had 230 hits (probably 50+ from me alone) and I've spent a good hour or two on typing it. I'm not posting out of some capitalistic opportunitic reasoning. I'm posting because I care about Teknidermy. If I didn't care, I'd just ignore it.

Frogboy {10.14.2002|14.41}

One of the Deskmod servers is owned by Stardock. Tek may or may not be located on the server that is owned by Stardock. Stardock loaned the server to Deskmod unconditionally. But obviously, if Kenray privately believed that SD and other corporate interests are the root of all the problems (and I'm not saying or implying he feels this way) then surely he wouldn't want to be directly benefiting from those corporate interests. It would be like the PETA protester at a animal rights conference eating a McDonalds hamburger. ;)

Frogboy {10.14.2002|14.46}

I'm sorry Doreen but I don't have any sympathy for you on this. When *I* do something that is just for fun and for my hobby and I get called a "criminal" and "evil" and worse, you're the first one to defend the person calling me names.

But if someone offers even the most mild criticism you suddenly discover that criticism stings. If my comments on Tek "gets to you" then you can imagine how Shoggot and Co's libel against me "got to me" and how it must have felt to see you interview him and you defend him on the various sites where he posted his vile nastiness.

Frogboy {10.14.2002|20.45}

Doreen, you're a hypocrite. You have no idea what "bashing" means if you take my criticsm as "bashing". And you completely blew off my previous post: If Doreen does something as a volunteer effort then one shouldn't feel free to criticize it. If someone else does something as a volunteer effort then Doreen will defend strenuously anyone who not only criticizes it but makes personal attacks on the actual volunteers.

Frankly Doreen, I don't give a crap whether you took something as a threat or not. My statement wasn't meant as a threat. But I'm not going to jump through hoops to convince you of that because I don't care.

Part of this discussion has been trying to understand why Tek choose to cover the things it does. We get an interview of Babya but no "first look" of some new skinning program.

My assertion has been that perhaps there is a hidden agenda of the site. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. You say that there's no agenda, you're just all "just volunteers and cover whatever". That's fine but people still have the right to express their opinions -- even if it's a volunteer effort. Just like when Pat and I were volunteering 20+ hours per week to the GUI Olympics while getting called profane names by Shoggot and othrs who you vigorously defended and while Kenray was on other sites implying that we were trying to rip off skinners, you are volunteering here.

But what we don't do is coerce people. If we were going to act like fascists or something we'd pressure people not to carry msstyles. Heck, Stardock's main webserver hosts HOverdesk themes (i.e. machines in the building). My point is that IF Kenray really has a private and intense dislike of corporations in skinning (and Stardock in general) then he should know that he is quite possibly directly benefiting from those same companies.

If you dont' want stuff on our servers, that's really none of our affair. Deskmod has multiple servers, we only supply one of them. I don't know if Tek is on ab SD one or not. But I can tell you that I don't care if it is or not.

Frogboy {10.14.2002|22.05}

Doreen - don't throw the towel in because of one person's opinion. For every 10 likes you'll get a dislike. Rise above it and bloom :)

integer {10.15.2002|00.40}

Doreen - listen to Integer. I think most people who visit the site like Teknidermy. I visit here every issue right away so I must like something here.

Frogboy {10.15.2002|10.22}

Gee... a stardock controvercy thread. Been a while since I saw one of these.

I like how tek is run. The articles are interesting, and this is my fav mag. They are fine to me. They are not anti or pro corp. I'm anti, and trust me it takes one to know one. I feel they handled the article well. That fact that it wasn't posted speeks well toward good judgement and good journelism. Ken was honest about why it wasn't posted: it was too opinionated.

Stardock has plenty of controvercial opponents and threads. Their sugnificance is subject to oppinion. I'm neutral (one of the few), so I really don't care either way.

*CutTheRedWire loves Doreen *hugs* =^.^=

CutTheRedWire {10.15.2002|19.44}

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kmr {10.17.2002|17.23}